Just ‘Ellen’s’ term stays a secret, there seems to be zero-that entitled Ellen otherwise Helen, except maybe a keen ‘Eleanor’ on the Joanna’s side (Eleanor off Aquitaine, mommy regarding Joanna’s father King John)
Hello, group. It’s its fascinating; the things i would not possess supplied to gain access to this particular article twenty-5 years in the past when i are researching and composing Here Getting Dragons!
The key intent behind which exercising is to use, because of the a look at genealogist’s opinions about them by consulting particular recognized new supply, to decide who was mom away from Gwladus Ddu ferch Llywelyn. Are she Joanna, wife out of Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth (Joan Plantagenet: Produced circa.1188, died. March 1237) otherwise was she Tangwystl ferch Llyarch away from Rhos, domme regarding Llywelyn, born circa. 1168, died??
I’ll follow this having a holiday investigation toward it is possible to life of a great ded Susanna, provided out over King Henry 111 due to the fact an excellent hostage when you look at the 1228 along with her custody becoming offered to help you Sir Nicholas Verdun and his partner Clementia.
The latest feedback of Genealogists which i have read are just one to, viewpoints, as well as differ considerably. Zero particular facts exists regardless, but i have to state that the majority hold to possess Gwladus to be the latest daughter of Joanna. This is particularly true of your own genealogists of one’s descendants away from the new De- Braose members of the family, nonetheless they ily becoming associated with both Welsh and you may English royal home!
The ensuing list off Llywelyn’s numerous genuine and you may illegitimate people appears is basically approved by all of the genealogists that we has actually learned with the exception of distinctions over whether or not no. 9 really stayed. The newest dates regarding delivery given below are also disputed by the particular:
- Gruffudd ap Llywelyn, born circa.1199, passed away 1244
- Gwladys Ddu ferch Llywelyn, produced circa.1206, died 1251
- Ellen (Helen, Elen) ferch Llywelyn, born circa 1206? passed away circa 1253,
- Margred (Margaret) ferch Llywelyn, born circa 1208? passed away circa 1263,
- Dafydd ap Llywelyn, Prince of Wales, born circa 1208 (1211 bu web sitesine atlayД±n?) (second thoughts regarding it time, pick afterwards), died twenty five March 1246,
- Gwenllian ferch Llywelyn, born circa 1209 passed away 1281.
- Angharad ferch Llywelyn, born circa 1210, died 1257
- Tegwared ap Llywelyn – born circa 1210, you’ll twin to Angharad?
- ‘Helen’, otherwise ‘Susanna’, born circa 1214? Passed away 1259?
There was far argument along side term of your own moms and dads out of these types of people. You will find standard arrangement that only certain college students off Llywelyn’s elizabeth Prince out of Wales and you may Ellen (Helen) just who hitched (1) John the Scot, young buck of your earl regarding Chester and you may (2) Robert de- Quincy. Even though advice is separated along side mothers from Gwladus, Gwenllian, Margred and Susanna, a lot of genealogists I’ve learnt lean on the their mom are Joanna.
This is partly the help of its heading schedules regarding delivery just like the really as his or her marriage ceremonies to various marcher lords which, one to supposes, would have tried so you’re able to make their homes to this of its neighbour, the latest Prince regarding North Wales and his partner, the fresh king out-of England’s daughter. It is believed that such lords of one’s March won’t have experienced a great deal focus or political motivation in marrying away from the sons to the illegitimate daughters away from a great Welsh prince that have an excellent Welsh woman.
As to the names ones children, whether or not of the Joanna, Tangwystl otherwise someone else, these were the titled after people in Llywelyn’s friends:
Ken, the audience is completely on your loans
Llywelyn’s mommy are called ‘ed ‘Susanna’ out-of Gwynedd. Their paternal granny is named ‘Gwladus’. The mother and father regarding his grandma Susanna, were ‘Gruffudd’ ap Cynan and you may ‘Angharad’ off Flint and one another its brands got to help you Llywelyn’s youngsters. So it Susanna also had a brother titled ‘Gwenllian’, an identical identity just like the Llywelyn’s great-grandmother.